1 00:00:03,500 --> 00:00:08,000 Greetings, this is Pastor David Bass at New Geneva Orthodox Presbyterian Church 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,099 with a moment of truth where we challenge you to think through an important issue of life and faith. 3 00:00:13,199 --> 00:00:21,280 And today I want to challenge you to think through the issue of the relationship between the church and the state. 4 00:00:21,699 --> 00:00:26,339 Should we be in submission to the state at all times? 5 00:00:26,739 --> 00:00:30,079 And towards this end, I want to bring you a contrast. 6 00:00:30,079 --> 00:00:36,039 First, I'm calling today's message two thirteens, two thirteens. 7 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:44,420 There are indeed in the Bible, in the New Testament, two chapter thirteens that address the nature of our relationship with the state. 8 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,500 One is very well-known, very famous, and that is Romans 13. 9 00:00:49,979 --> 00:00:58,500 Let me read you that text and remind you of what the Apostle Paul says about the believer's submission to the state. 10 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:01,200 This is Romans 13, verses 1 through 7. 11 00:01:01,539 --> 00:01:07,939 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God. 12 00:01:08,239 --> 00:01:11,400 And those that exist have been instituted by God. 13 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:19,739 Therefore, whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 14 00:01:20,439 --> 00:01:24,500 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. 15 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:27,439 Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? 16 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:33,680 Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. 17 00:01:34,140 --> 00:01:44,079 But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain, for he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 18 00:01:44,079 --> 00:01:50,879 Therefore, one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath, but also for the sake of conscience. 19 00:01:51,519 --> 00:01:53,840 For because of this, you also pay taxes. 20 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,980 For the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 21 00:01:59,780 --> 00:02:09,099 Pay to all what is owed to them, taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. 22 00:02:09,099 --> 00:02:10,099 Unquote. 23 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:24,919 That is Romans chapter 13, verses 1 through 7, and speaks very directly to our relationship, the believer's relationship to the state, to the authorities of the state, to the magistrate, as our standards call him. 24 00:02:25,460 --> 00:02:30,659 But there's another chapter, I submit to you, that is symbolic, that is representative of our relationship to the state. 25 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:36,259 And it might be kind of a surprise to you, but it is indeed Revelation chapter 13. 26 00:02:36,259 --> 00:02:39,020 Let me read that for you, to provide some context. 27 00:02:39,219 --> 00:02:40,340 Revelation chapter 13. 28 00:02:40,719 --> 00:02:49,099 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns, and blasphemous names on its head. 29 00:02:49,460 --> 00:02:54,659 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. 30 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,780 And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. 31 00:02:59,379 --> 00:03:03,879 One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed. 32 00:03:03,879 --> 00:03:07,840 Then the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast, and they worshipped the dragon. 33 00:03:08,159 --> 00:03:11,659 For he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshipped the beast, saying, 34 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,199 Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it? 35 00:03:14,939 --> 00:03:22,719 And the beast was given a mouth, uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 36 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:29,699 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 37 00:03:29,699 --> 00:03:33,520 Also, it was allowed to make war on the saints, and to conquer them. 38 00:03:33,879 --> 00:03:39,939 And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it. 39 00:03:40,259 --> 00:03:46,240 Everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. 40 00:03:46,740 --> 00:03:48,319 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 41 00:03:48,659 --> 00:03:51,580 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes. 42 00:03:51,780 --> 00:03:55,800 If anyone is to be slain with a sword, with a sword must he be slain. 43 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,180 Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints. 44 00:03:59,719 --> 00:04:02,439 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. 45 00:04:02,599 --> 00:04:05,180 It had two horns like a lamb, and it spoke like a dragon. 46 00:04:05,580 --> 00:04:14,340 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast whose mortal wound was healed. 47 00:04:14,919 --> 00:04:19,980 It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people. 48 00:04:19,980 --> 00:04:30,819 And by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast, it deceives those who dwell on the earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 49 00:04:31,399 --> 00:04:40,540 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak, and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 50 00:04:40,540 --> 00:04:51,459 Also, it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark. 51 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,300 That is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 52 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:55,660 This calls for wisdom. 53 00:04:56,180 --> 00:05:04,339 Let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. 54 00:05:04,339 --> 00:05:13,399 666, right, that famous passage that everybody loves to play with and toy with, right, and speculate upon. 55 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:23,339 Well, I wish to bring out the nature of the relationship of the state to the believer from both of these texts, Revelation 13 and Romans 13. 56 00:05:23,819 --> 00:05:27,839 There are two 13s that speak to our relationship. 57 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:38,199 One of my favorite New Testament scholars has written a relatively unknown book that should be widely known, and it is called The State in the New Testament. 58 00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:43,139 And it was published in 1956, The State in the New Testament. 59 00:05:43,139 --> 00:05:50,980 And it was written by Dr. Coleman, by Dr. Oscar Coleman. 60 00:05:51,519 --> 00:06:04,839 And it bothered Dr. Coleman, knowing that most people, when they even thought about it, automatically assumed that Romans 13 was the chief and exclusive Bible text that spoke about the Christian's relationship with the government. 61 00:06:05,060 --> 00:06:06,759 That was the first text I read, right? 62 00:06:06,759 --> 00:06:17,759 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that have, and those that exist, excuse me, have been instituted by God. 63 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:26,600 And a superficial reading of that verse gives carte blanche to tyrants to do whatever they want, and the church must sanction it. 64 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:39,680 It also gives carte blanche to lazy Christians to not have to think about what they must do the next day when government closes their churches, and what kind of sacrifices they might have to make for defying the government. 65 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:41,500 People don't want to think about that. 66 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,079 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, period. 67 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:46,100 That settles it. 68 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:47,199 No more needs to be said. 69 00:06:47,759 --> 00:06:52,680 This text becomes a kind of written excuse from mommy to skip government class. 70 00:06:52,680 --> 00:07:01,040 It makes for a neat, cozy relationship between church and state that nobody has to think about anymore, because that's what the Bible says. 71 00:07:01,959 --> 00:07:10,360 But as Dr. Kuhlman says, and I agree with him wholeheartedly, he says in his book here, that is in Romans 13, 72 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:19,379 here things have come to such a pass that men are willing to classify Paul as an almost servile, uncritical servant of any state. 73 00:07:19,379 --> 00:07:24,779 As if he would say, yea and amen to every claim of the state, be it ever so totalitarian. 74 00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:28,120 Few sayings in the New Testament, he says. 75 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,980 Few sayings in the New Testament, and he has here Romans 13. 76 00:07:32,459 --> 00:07:37,779 Few sayings in the New Testament have suffered as much misuse as this one. 77 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:40,259 And I agree with him wholeheartedly. 78 00:07:40,259 --> 00:07:53,540 Because, indeed, such an attitude towards Romans 13 leads to the kind of evil compliance to which the churches of Nazi Germany fell prey in the 1930s. 79 00:07:54,500 --> 00:07:58,980 Oh, so many of the pastors in Germany said to their congregations things like, 80 00:07:59,439 --> 00:08:00,620 just go to the trains. 81 00:08:00,899 --> 00:08:02,199 It will be all right. 82 00:08:02,420 --> 00:08:04,259 It will be easier in the camps. 83 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,459 You'll be taken care of. 84 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,620 And, indeed, they were taken care of. 85 00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:13,079 After all, let every person be subject to the governing authorities. 86 00:08:13,339 --> 00:08:15,439 This text was on those pastors' lips. 87 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,079 Just go to the showers, they would say. 88 00:08:18,399 --> 00:08:20,360 Cleanliness is next to godliness, right? 89 00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:24,259 After all, let every person be subject to the governing authorities. 90 00:08:24,259 --> 00:08:32,480 Even those showers were actually pumping out Cyclone B, which then killed those under the shower heads. 91 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,259 Pastors across the United States are doing much the same kind of thing. 92 00:08:37,259 --> 00:08:44,299 Again, I submit to you, by exhorting compliance to an evil, corrupt, deep state. 93 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:50,080 As Dr. Coleman says, once again, he says, and I agree with him wholeheartedly, he says, 94 00:08:50,080 --> 00:09:00,639 The fountainhead of all false biblical interpretation and of all heresy is invariably the isolation and the absolutizing of one single passage. 95 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:06,379 This applies most especially in the interpretation of Romans 13, 1 through 7. 96 00:09:06,799 --> 00:09:07,940 Oh, unquote. 97 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:09,820 I couldn't agree with him more. 98 00:09:09,820 --> 00:09:20,820 And unlike the modern contemporary American church, the New Testament of the Bible speaks far more extensively to the issue of church and state. 99 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:37,679 The thing that Dr. Coleman brought out that really galvanized all of this for me was his observation that the New Testament not only has Romans 13, that speaks of our relationship to the state, but also includes Revelation 13, that does the same thing. 100 00:09:38,379 --> 00:09:40,080 There are at least two thirteens. 101 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:41,559 Dear listener, not one. 102 00:09:41,980 --> 00:09:44,059 That's my title today, two thirteens. 103 00:09:44,059 --> 00:09:58,919 And first of all, I want to treat of Romans 13, and about it, I want to say, understanding Romans 13 in its context will go a long way towards responding to the state and its authority over our lives. 104 00:09:59,500 --> 00:10:06,200 Have your Bibles open because I will be referring to a number of passages that surround Romans chapter 13 here. 105 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:19,940 So, when seen as intended, and that must always be kept in mind, when seen in its context, we can indeed be subject to the governing authorities, as Romans 13 exhorts us. 106 00:10:20,659 --> 00:10:22,820 Paul was not speaking in a vacuum here. 107 00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:23,860 There was a context. 108 00:10:24,220 --> 00:10:31,779 He was not making an isolated declaration and an absolute rule for all time and in every situation. 109 00:10:32,340 --> 00:10:34,279 He was not making that kind of statement. 110 00:10:34,279 --> 00:10:41,700 No, he was extrapolating to government what he had just said about individuals in Romans chapter 12. 111 00:10:41,980 --> 00:10:47,320 Romans chapter 12 does indeed provide us with part of the context for Romans 13. 112 00:10:48,340 --> 00:10:56,759 After all, in Romans chapter 12, if you have your Bibles open, you see that Paul says, repay no one evil for evil. 113 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,379 That is, leave it to the magistrate to punish evil. 114 00:11:00,379 --> 00:11:08,799 So, that's what he'll say in Romans 13 because, as Paul says in Romans 13, they, that is, the magistrate, is a terror to those who do bad. 115 00:11:09,039 --> 00:11:14,500 So, you need not, individual believer, repay anyone evil for evil. 116 00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:15,759 Leave that to the magistrate. 117 00:11:15,919 --> 00:11:17,059 That's part of the context. 118 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:25,299 And Paul also says in Romans chapter 12, do not avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God. 119 00:11:25,299 --> 00:11:37,559 That is, leave it to the wrath of God in the office of magistrate because he says in verse 4 of 13, the magistrate is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 120 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:48,039 And so, you are at liberty then in chapter 12 to leave a vengeance to the wrath of God, leave vengeance to the wrath of God. 121 00:11:48,340 --> 00:11:54,960 And then, also in chapter 12, part of the context in Romans 12 is you overcome evil with good. 122 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:58,919 Do good even as the magistrate does good as your servant. 123 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,720 That is picked up in chapter 13, isn't it? 124 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:10,179 In verse 4, he says, he, that is, the magistrate, is God's servant for your good, and so you, as well, overcome evil with good. 125 00:12:10,539 --> 00:12:14,179 This is part of the context, indeed, for Romans chapter 13. 126 00:12:14,879 --> 00:12:22,200 And that which is neglected in most teaching on this passage is the presupposition of good and bad, of right and wrong. 127 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,779 And that presupposition is the law of God. 128 00:12:24,779 --> 00:12:39,539 And when Paul enjoins obedience and subjection to the magistrate, that is, the governing authorities on pain of judgment from God himself, and the threat is, whoever resists the authorities, resists what God has appointed. 129 00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:43,580 And those who resist will incur judgment in verse 2, very solemn warning. 130 00:12:44,860 --> 00:12:51,620 Well, the rule, what is presupposed is the rule and standard to measure good conduct and bad conduct. 131 00:12:51,620 --> 00:12:58,019 There must be a, if indeed, if there's going to be good and bad conduct, we must be able to distinguish between the two according to a measure. 132 00:12:58,460 --> 00:13:03,480 And the standard measure is presupposed to be God's measure of good and bad conduct. 133 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:04,899 That is his law. 134 00:13:05,539 --> 00:13:07,799 What else must be in mind, dear listener? 135 00:13:07,899 --> 00:13:08,960 What else does he have in mind? 136 00:13:09,039 --> 00:13:09,899 Something arbitrary? 137 00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:12,139 The Code of Hammurabi, for instance. 138 00:13:12,279 --> 00:13:18,960 We studied this in college, which, when you read it, you find has two classes of justice. 139 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:24,259 One for just us, that is, the royalty, and one for the rest, that is, the proletariat. 140 00:13:24,860 --> 00:13:29,279 And the Code of Hammurabi is completely capricious and arbitrary, unlike God's law. 141 00:13:29,919 --> 00:13:34,399 What are we to have in mind as God's measure of good and bad conduct? 142 00:13:34,539 --> 00:13:37,000 Was it the law of the jungle, where might makes right? 143 00:13:37,179 --> 00:13:40,000 That's virtually the notion of power in Marxism. 144 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:51,720 How about Sharia law, the Sharia law of Islam, which, if indeed enforced, will extinguish the light of the gospel and inaugurate a thousand years of darkness, if it indeed comes to us? 145 00:13:52,379 --> 00:13:54,139 Oh, no, none of these. 146 00:13:55,220 --> 00:14:03,860 The presupposed standard of good and bad, of right and wrong, is indeed the law of God in chapter 13 of Romans. 147 00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:09,860 It says, when the magistrate bears the sword in accordance with God's law, he is to be submitted unto. 148 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,080 He is indeed God's servant for your good. 149 00:14:13,820 --> 00:14:17,000 And the subsequent context of Romans 13 bears this out for us, too. 150 00:14:17,279 --> 00:14:23,100 If you have your Bible open, cast your eyes from verses 8 and following, the subsequent context. 151 00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:33,700 And there, Paul says, oh, no one anything except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 152 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,340 The law is the context. 153 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:41,340 He goes on to say, for the commandments, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet. 154 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,259 That's all from the law, isn't it? 155 00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:48,600 Paul goes on to say, and any other commandment are summed up in this word, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. 156 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:53,700 And then finally, in the subsequent context, Paul says, love does no wrong to a neighbor. 157 00:14:54,059 --> 00:14:57,419 Therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law. 158 00:14:58,059 --> 00:15:00,240 The fulfilling of the law. 159 00:15:00,759 --> 00:15:03,139 Indeed, this is the context for Romans 13. 160 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:08,019 The law of God frames this entire discussion of our relationship to the state. 161 00:15:08,799 --> 00:15:16,879 Paul presupposes that the standard by which a magistrate will approve a citizen in verse 3 or avenge on the wrongdoer of God's wrath in verse 4, 162 00:15:16,879 --> 00:15:20,320 this is indeed God's law. 163 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:29,320 It is by this standard, as one author has put it, entitled this book, Greg Bonson did, by this standard, an excellent book. 164 00:15:29,399 --> 00:15:30,299 I commend it to you. 165 00:15:31,039 --> 00:15:38,059 Well, in fact, this was Paul's experience, too, with the Roman magistrate throughout the book of Acts. 166 00:15:38,340 --> 00:15:40,539 This is part of our context, too. 167 00:15:41,059 --> 00:15:46,279 Paul's experience with the Roman magistrate, who he's talking about here in Romans 13. 168 00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:57,799 His experience is chronicled in the book of Acts, and it's why Paul could write so confidently here concerning the Christian's submission to that authority. 169 00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:01,620 The Roman magistrate throughout the book of Acts. 170 00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:11,639 His entire encounter with the Roman justice system was one of fairness and justice in stark contrast with the evil intent of the Jews. 171 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:14,539 I just give you three quick examples here. 172 00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:23,940 First of all, in Acts 23, the Roman tribune protects Paul from the plot of the Jews, and he gives him safe passage to Caesarea and then on to Rome. 173 00:16:23,940 --> 00:16:39,360 And then the Roman proconsul, Sergius Paulus, in Acts chapter 13, that Luke says is a man of intelligence, Sergius Paulus discerned between the authenticity of Paul and Barnabas and the deceit of Elimus the sorcerer. 174 00:16:39,580 --> 00:16:44,059 And in fact, Sergius Paulus became a believer, the Roman proconsul himself. 175 00:16:44,059 --> 00:17:01,120 And then significantly, the Roman proconsul of Achaia, Gallio, refused to entertain accusations against Paul by the Jews, since it was about the obscurities of the religious rules and not about, as Luke says, wrongdoing or vicious crime. 176 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,940 That would have fallen within the purview of Roman law. 177 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,259 And that's chronicled in Acts chapter 18. 178 00:17:07,259 --> 00:17:24,940 So, again and again, throughout Acts, whenever Paul faced injustice or indignities at the hands of the Jews, it was the panoply of Roman magistrates who acquitted him at the bar of Roman justice, which coincided with biblical justice. 179 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:25,819 That's the point. 180 00:17:26,579 --> 00:17:35,259 Roman justice at this time in the hinterland in Asia Minor, the bar of Roman justice coincided with biblical justice. 181 00:17:35,259 --> 00:17:52,359 And we know this not only because of the book of Acts, but because we have extant with us a record of Roman jurisprudence and philosophical reflection, excuse me, on law and justice from men like Cicero or Seneca. 182 00:17:52,359 --> 00:18:02,140 We have the writings and we know that at this time, at its best, Roman jurisprudence coincided with biblical jurisprudence. 183 00:18:02,140 --> 00:18:14,900 In fact, the entire development in the West of natural law is based in part upon the coherence of Roman jurisprudence with that of jurisprudence found in the Bible. 184 00:18:15,539 --> 00:18:29,579 And consequently, Paul is able to counsel submission to Roman authority because at the time of the composition of Romans, the understanding of good versus evil was substantially the same. 185 00:18:29,579 --> 00:18:34,279 This is utterly necessary to understanding Romans chapter 13. 186 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:41,259 Obedience and submission are not owed when the magistrate deviates from the standard of God's law. 187 00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:52,279 The believer will ipso facto come into conflict with that jurisprudence, with that law, with that system when it does. 188 00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:57,900 When the magistrate deviates from the standard of God's law, there will be conflict. 189 00:18:58,980 --> 00:19:05,380 Proverbs 28, which does a lot of reflection on the nature of the relationship of government to the believer. 190 00:19:06,180 --> 00:19:07,980 Proverbs 28, verse 4 says, 191 00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:15,579 They that forsake the law praise the wicked, but such as keep the law contend with them. 192 00:19:16,099 --> 00:19:18,299 Law keepers contend with law breakers. 193 00:19:18,299 --> 00:19:22,759 That's just the nature of the case, and that will happen under jurisprudence. 194 00:19:23,180 --> 00:19:25,660 That does indeed conflict with God's law. 195 00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:28,480 And Proverbs 21, 15 says, 196 00:19:28,859 --> 00:19:34,400 When justice is done, it is a joy to the righteous, but terror to evildoers. 197 00:19:35,819 --> 00:19:41,519 Indeed, Paul had this in mind when he was talking about the magistrate being a terror to those who do wrong. 198 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:47,960 But when government turns these things on their head, it is not to be obeyed. 199 00:19:48,140 --> 00:19:53,599 That law, the magistrate, is not to be obeyed, but contended with, as the Proverbs say. 200 00:19:54,000 --> 00:20:02,200 When government rewards the wicked and punishes the righteous, that government has transgressed its implicit contract with the people. 201 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,980 Well, there is indeed a contract with the people that government has, right? 202 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,660 And John Locke reflected on this in his treatises on government as well. 203 00:20:13,660 --> 00:20:24,640 For example, George Soros has funded the campaigns of hundreds of local attorneys general in strategic states and municipalities throughout the country, 204 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,480 precisely in order to praise the wicked and punish the righteous. 205 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,859 A recent example is that of Mark and Patricia McCloskey in St. Louis. 206 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:34,619 Perhaps you've read about this story. 207 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,900 They defended their home with drawn weapons against an Antifa mob, 208 00:20:39,220 --> 00:20:42,559 which threatened the couple and the entire complex in which they lived. 209 00:20:42,619 --> 00:20:47,900 And yet, it is they who are threatened with prosecution in our politically correct atmosphere. 210 00:20:48,579 --> 00:20:50,420 And if you follow the case of Roger Stone, 211 00:20:50,420 --> 00:20:55,839 you know that he too was wrongfully prosecuted in a kangaroo court established precisely for this purpose. 212 00:20:55,940 --> 00:20:57,480 And General Flynn, too, another example, 213 00:20:57,859 --> 00:21:02,920 recently exonerated in a series of stunning revelations of miscarriage of justice. 214 00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:08,940 He's another example of the righteous being punished while the wicked are being praised. 215 00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:11,200 We could cite many other examples. 216 00:21:12,059 --> 00:21:18,960 And the metaphor in our parlance for this precise state of affairs is that of the deep state. 217 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,319 Huh, yes, a good, succinct term for it, kind of amorphous. 218 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:29,359 We know some of the names and figures and people and so forth and faces, do we not? 219 00:21:29,539 --> 00:21:30,380 But not all of them. 220 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:32,980 The deep state is real. 221 00:21:33,299 --> 00:21:35,460 It is pernicious and it is evil. 222 00:21:35,980 --> 00:21:43,680 It is nothing like the Roman system of jurisprudence and law that existed in the provinces of the empire in Paul's day. 223 00:21:44,579 --> 00:21:47,400 Paul could confidently exhort the church in his day, 224 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:57,160 let every person be subject to the governing authorities because the standard for good and evil in the empire coincided with the standard for good and evil in the Bible. 225 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,420 And thus, the authorities were not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. 226 00:22:02,420 --> 00:22:17,460 By definition, Paul's whole construct for Romans 13, even being intelligible, is based upon a shared foundation for law and order between Roman jurisprudence and biblical jurisprudence. 227 00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:18,720 This is undeniable. 228 00:22:19,559 --> 00:22:28,079 We cannot just willy-nilly submit to every governing authority blindly just because it is legitimate and just because it's there. 229 00:22:28,079 --> 00:22:32,940 Men like John MacArthur do this and they do it wrongly. 230 00:22:33,559 --> 00:22:39,660 John MacArthur said in his sermon on Romans 13, he says this, and listen to how absurd it is. 231 00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:41,839 MacArthur says, now listen to this. 232 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:50,759 It doesn't matter whether your ruler is Caesar, Herod, Pilate, Felix, Festus, Agrippa, Stalin, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Bill Clinton. 233 00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:52,240 It doesn't matter who it is. 234 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,539 Paul says, be subject. 235 00:22:55,079 --> 00:22:57,240 You teach them to be subject, unquote. 236 00:22:58,619 --> 00:23:02,880 Oh, dear listener, I love John MacArthur in many, many ways, but he's wrong in this. 237 00:23:03,539 --> 00:23:08,180 Because just what I've quoted you from him is a prescription for Holocaust. 238 00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:10,740 A prescription for Holocaust. 239 00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:14,720 The same kind of Holocaust we saw in Germany under the Nazis. 240 00:23:15,539 --> 00:23:17,099 Just go to the trains. 241 00:23:17,619 --> 00:23:19,319 Be subject to their governing authorities. 242 00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:22,160 Just go to the showers, believers. 243 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,259 Dear church, just go to the showers. 244 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,000 Cleanliness is next to godliness after all. 245 00:23:27,420 --> 00:23:30,140 And we must be subject to the governing authorities, right? 246 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,339 It's a prescription for Holocaust. 247 00:23:33,220 --> 00:23:38,559 Now, Dr. Oscar Kuhlman lived through that period of time. 248 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,160 He saw, he was German. 249 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:49,559 He saw up close what Hitler did and what the subjugation of the church, what the submission of the church to the Nazi state produced. 250 00:23:50,259 --> 00:23:59,319 And he says this in his book, The State in the New Testament, published in 1956, just 11 years after the end of World War II. 251 00:23:59,319 --> 00:24:03,220 And what he says here about the German state is, and I quote, 252 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:10,859 Even a legitimate state is always in danger of becoming satanic in one way or another. 253 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:19,880 We do too great honor to the German national socialistic state when we put it on the same level with the Roman state. 254 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:30,440 So far as legality is concerned, the national socialistic state had also fallen away from the order in which every state is placed. 255 00:24:30,859 --> 00:24:36,920 For here, the ethical distinction between good and evil, right and wrong, no longer prevail. 256 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,420 On the contrary, right was whatever the state required, unquote. 257 00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:45,819 Oh, Dr. Kuhlman is so precise on this. 258 00:24:45,859 --> 00:24:47,359 He's so good on this, isn't he? 259 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:54,640 Indeed, even a legitimate state, as he says, is always in danger of becoming satanic in one way or another. 260 00:24:55,140 --> 00:25:03,059 Reflecting on Revelation chapter 13, even as the Roman state quickly did become satanic by the time of John's day. 261 00:25:03,059 --> 00:25:11,960 And I would submit to you that the legitimate state of the United States of America has already become satanic 262 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:18,279 and in the morphing into the shape of the deep state that we now have. 263 00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:24,339 And we do too great of an honor to the American national socialistic state. 264 00:25:24,740 --> 00:25:32,220 We do too great of an honor to the American deep state when we put it on the same level as the Roman state. 265 00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:36,880 No, it indeed has become evil and satanic. 266 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,480 And I've covered this in multiple broadcasts in the past. 267 00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:44,059 So have this in mind as these days roll on. 268 00:25:44,539 --> 00:25:49,299 Well, we will take up part two. 269 00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:56,880 That is the contrast between Romans 13 with that of Revelation chapter 13 in our next broadcast. 270 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:04,900 But suffice it to say that for now, indeed, Romans 13 is not always what it appears once we have put it in its context. 271 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,380 And I urge you then to join us at New Geneva Orthodox Presbyterian Church, 272 00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:12,579 where I am preaching through the book of Revelation even now. 273 00:26:12,759 --> 00:26:15,380 And these issues come up constantly, time and time again. 274 00:26:15,579 --> 00:26:20,039 And they're not done being dealt with here in our day and time in our culture, 275 00:26:20,599 --> 00:26:24,180 because these are front burner issues, which is one reason I'm treating them. 276 00:26:24,180 --> 00:26:27,460 So come and join us for worship at New Geneva. 277 00:26:27,940 --> 00:26:34,099 We meet for holy worship on Sunday at 10 a.m. at 101 4th Street on the corner of 4th and Boulevard. 278 00:26:34,460 --> 00:26:36,759 Perhaps you've been intending to cross our threshold. 279 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,039 Now is the time to do it. 280 00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:43,599 101 4th Street on the corner of 4th and Boulevard, Sunday at 10 a.m. 281 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:50,500 You can call me for feedback or more information at area code 208-523-0196. 282 00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:54,839 208-523-0196.